37[“The Aborigines Question”, The West Australian, Wednesday 15 February 1905, pages 2-3]

THE ABORIGINES QUESTION.

DR. ROTH’s INVESTIGATIONS.

PROSECUTION OF ABORIGINES.

FEMALE WITNESSES.

THE FOOD QUESTION.

The following is the fifth instalment of the evidence collected by Dr. Roth during his investigations into the condition and treatment of the aborigines of this State:

Bertram Henry Fletcher, late Kuhlmann, Constable of Police, La Grange Bay.

How long have you been at La Grange Bay?—— Two years and four months.

What are your duties there?—— Protecting the natives and keeping immorality down. Those are my instructions.

What is the nature of the immorality?—— Connection between aboriginal women and Asiatics employed on the pearling boats.

Is there much of this going on?—— Yes, there is a great deal of it, but it would be terrible if no one was there to stop some of it.

Is there much disease amongst the aborigines at La Grange Bay?—— There is some, but I am pleased to say that there is not so much as when I first went there.

How many blacks are there in the neighbourhood of La Grange Bay?—— Within my patrol there are about 400 natives.

What proportion of these do you consider are diseased?—— Not quite one-quarter of them, as the men are in the majority. The worst cases are generally among the women. To give an instance, a short time ago 30 of the blanks were very bad with venereal disease, and about 17 or 18 of these died.

Were these mostly women?—— Yes. All but one or two.

Were there any young girls amongst those diseased?—— There were none of tender years, but some were as young as 16.

What success has attended your efforts in coping with this evil?—— I have had great success. I suppose there is not one-tenth of the disease that there was when I went there first. This can be proved by the decrease in the supply of Medicines.

What steps have you taken to stop immorality?—— I kept the natives together as much as possible, and when I saw any Asiatics from the boats come ashore about night time I put them in chains for the night. Of course, many of them have got ashore when I have been unable to see them. I have given the natives work to do to keep them out of mischief.

Surely you could not watch every creek in the neighbourhood?—— Certainly I could not. I have mustered the natives in one or two places, and seen that no men from the boats came near them. Very few natives get away from the camps. One disadvantage is that I have never had full powers to do this. When I have had to come to Broome all the good that has been done has been undone.

Is there nothing to prevent these boats’ crews getting wood and water themselves?—— There is nothing to prevent it that I can see.

Do the blacks you mention come to the creeks because of the Malays and other Asiatics?—— Yes. Some of them come from the coast and others from inland. The coastal natives tell them what they can get from the crews, and they are attracted. Some natives come from 100 miles inland to trade with the crews about twice a year.

Do you mean to tell me that they come from 100 miles inland for the purposes of prostitution?—— Yes.

What reward do they get for that prostitution?—— That rests with the Malays. They generally get rice, flour, clothes, food, tobacco, and pipes.

If none of these Asiatics were there do you think they could get sufficient food to live on?—— That is a question now.

Why is it a question now?—— The natives have been so used for many years past to this method of getting food that it would be hard work to break them of it. They have got rid of most of their native weapons and tools, and it would take some time to get them back to their old habits; but I think that if they were forced they could do it.

Is there sufficient native food there for these blacks to live on if they were forced to do it?—— I daresay there would be enough.

Are there any relief centres in the district you patrol?—— Yes.

Are you satisfied yourself that the blacks do get this relief?—— I am perfectly satisfied that they get some, but I would not say that they get it all. If the food was given to them raw, I should not think the quantity would be sufficient for them to live on.

Is the food cooked for them, then, before they get it?—— Yes. Mr. Tuckett, of La Grange Bay, cooks the food he supplies them with.

Why do they not cook it themselves?—— I do not know the reason of it at all.

Is it to the advantage of the distributor to cook the food first?—— Yes, considerable advantage.

Kindly explain where the advantage comes in?—— A bag of flour will boil up to three times its weight. If the distributor get 9d. per head for 40 natives, one bag of flour will feed these men when it is boiled, but if it is given out raw it would take a greater quantity. I would much rather see the food cooked first, because if it is given out to the old natives and they are allowed to take it away to the camp, they generally have to share it with loafers and hangers-on. When it is cooked first they can eat it on the spot.

Do you think that this promiscuous feeding of the blacks finds a living for a lot of blacks who would otherwise be able to get their own food?—— I certainly think it, except in the case of cripples, who could be kept by the younger ones. They did it before the whites came.

I suppose most of the people who are getting relief have younger relatives working on the stations?—— Yes. In most cases they have.

Do these young people who are working on the stations get any wages?—— They certainly do not. The payment of wages to aborigines is a thing totally unheard of here.

Do you think it a farce that the Government should be supplying relief to the old natives when the younger ones are working on the stations?—— It is a farce. My reports will show that I have brought the matter up before.

Would you approve of a system whereby these pearling luggers would only be allowed to obtain wood and water at certain fixed points on the coast?—— Yes; I would, most emphatically.

And whereby no blacks would he allowed to go near these places?—— I would be very much in favour of such a system. But I would like to make a suggestion by which the creeks could be patrolled and the male blacks could earn their own living by cutting wood and getting water for the boats.

Why should the blacks get wood and water for the boats at all?—— I only make this suggestion, as some of the blacks would then earn their keep.

There are so many creeks that it would take a regiment of soldiers to patrol them properly. Why not make some provision whereby the natives could earn their own food? Last year I managed so that the natives got some return for their work. I did it entirely on my own initiative. I had no power to do so.

If the blacks were not allowed to get wood and water for the lungers, you think there would be sufficient native food if they were forced to get their own food?—— Not if they were concentrated.

Would you approve of a boat patrolling the coast to see that the pearling boats did get wood and water at the specified places and taking action if the crews landed in any other places?—— I would certainly approve of it. I think La Grange Bay should be made a centre for this part of the coast south of Broome. It would be idiotic to run a boat from Broome down to La Grange Bay.

At present have you any power to prevent these Asiatics coming on shore and mixing with the aborigines?—— There is no law to prevent it at all.

Besides Malays and other Asiatics, do white men from the boats interfere with the native women?—— Yes; men who should know better.

Do you approve of a system of having large reserves along the coast where no one should be allowed to land?—— Yes; there should be reserves on which the Asiatics should not be allowed to go, and also reserves on which the aborigines should not be allowed to go. When the pearling boats come along, the natives could be allowed on to the reserves with the permission of the man in charge of the reservation.

Are any of the aboriginal women taken on board the boats?—— Yes; I am certain that women are taken on the boats, but I have only seen it from a distance, and have been unable to prevent it, as I have no boat. I have reported the matter, and got a “rap over the knuckles” for doing so without clear proof.

From whom did you get the “rap over the knuckles”?—— From the officer in charge at Broome.

Do you know that it is a punishable offence to take aboriginal women on board the boats?—— Yes; but I have never been able to get clear proof of it. I have seen it at a distance, but did not know the names of those concerned. The boats go to sea with the women on board, and all I can do is to report what is going on.

Are there any water police at La Grange Bay?—— No. I have applied for a boat, but I was told that it was not necessary.

When did you apply for a boat?—— I have done so several times. I applied within the last four months.

Do you know whether these women are taken against their will?—— They are forced to go by their husbands and the men. I would not say that they go willingly. There are exceptions, but in the majority of cases the prostitution is caused by the black men.

Is there anything else you would wish to bring before my notice?—— No. I would refer you to the constable who took my place while I was away on leave to bear out my statements.

Is your salary paid by the Police Departnment or the Aborigines Department?—— It is paid by the Aborigines Department.

Do you receive your instructions from the Aborigines Department?—— I do not think I have had direct instructions from either Department. I certainly have none in writing.

You have simply to do the best you can under the circumstances?—— Exactly so. That is how I have been placed.

From the evidence you have given me I gather that unless you have larger powers than you have at present, this immorality will go on just the same. Is that so?—— I am sure of it. I may just as well sit down in the tent and enter in the journal “Gone to Broome.” or patrolled somewhere else, and not go out at all as things are at present.

John Wilson. Constable of Police, Isdell River.

(Evidence taken at Derby.)

How long have you been stationed in the Isdell River district?—— I have been about 10 years in the East Kimberley district, but only 12 months in this part of it.

Have you had any experience in arresting blacks for cattle-killing?—— Yes.

How often?—— I have been at it a good deal during the last 10 years. I could not say exactly the number of times I have been engaged on the work.

When on such an expedition do you always take a warrant?—— No.

Do you go armed with an information?—— Yes. We always get the information from the settlers. We never go in pursuit of natives unless we get a complaint from the settlers to the effect that the natives have been killing their stock.

Is the information with which you are armed always in the proper form?—— We do not always get it written. It is very often verbal.

Then your information is not always in the proper form?—— It is not always written.

Is a verbal information a proper form in which to have it?—— No.

Do you know beforehand how many blacks you are going to arrest?.—No.

Are you armed?—— Yes.

Is your tracker armed?—— Yes.

What is he armed with?—— A rifle, a Winchester carbine.

How many horses do you generally take with you on such an expedition?—— About ten.

How many neck-chains do you take?—— I usually take sufficient for about 15 natives.

You said just now that you did not know how many natives you were going to arrest. Is the precaution of taking 15 neck-chains sufficient?—— It is very seldom that we arrest more than that number. Very often they do not exceed that number.

Are your neck-chains fitted with cuffs or split-links?—— Cuffs.

How much do you take in the way of provisions when you start?—— I take sufficient rations according to the length of time I expect to be patrolling.

Do you mean to say that you take sufficient rations for 15 natives?—— Yes.

What is the nature of these rations?—— Flour, tea, sugar, and jams.

About how much flour do you take?—— I take about four or five cwts. of flour.

How much tea?—— About 101b. for a trip.

How much sugar?—— About 401b.

How many jams?—— Just two or three tins.

Do you supply your aboriginal prisoners with tea, sugar, and jams?—— Tea and sugar; not jams.

How long do you generally expect to be away on these trips?—— I generally take provisions enough for two or three weeks, but I never know when we start out the time that we will be away.

What is the longest time you have been away on one of these trips?—— I have been out nearly three months.

Do you or your trackers shoot any game on the road?—— Occasionally.

Do you buy any beef from the stations on the road?—— Yes: beef or any other provisions that we may be short of.

What do you pay for your beef on the stations?—— Fourpance per pound. On the stations that I am on at the present time we buy a carcase for £5. In the East Kimberley district we paid fivepence a pound.

How many prisoners have you secured on one occasion for cattle-stealing?—— The most I have ever secured was 33 on one patrol.

I want to know exactly the manner of arrest in such a case; when you arrest the natives do you actually go into the camp yourself or send in your trooper first?—— I go myself, in company with the tracker.

Have you ever sent your tracker in by himself?—— I have on one or two occasions.

Do any Europeans assist you in the arrest?—— Occasionally.

Are these people interested in the situation: are they stockmen, or managers, etc. ?—— They are stockmen.

Do you demand the assistance of these Europeans in the King’s name?—— No.

Under what authority, then, do they assist you in arresting the alleged cattle stealers?—— No authority. These men volunteer to come if I am short-handed.

That is to say, the people who assist you are interested in the station?—— Only that they are stockmen.

Do they go on the orders of the manager?—— Yes. I have had stockmen from the stations, and do not know whether the manager knew of it or not. Managers from the stations have accompanied me several times.

Are these European temporary assistants armed or not?—— They are armed.

What has constituted the largest number of armed European assistants who have been with you in arresting aborigines?—— About two men are as many as I remember having with me as European assistants.

What is the largest number of guns you have had in your party?—— About six or seven rifles, as near as I can recollect.

What time of the day or night do you generally make these large arrests?—— Daylight.

Who tells you in which camp the supposed cattle-killers are?—— We usually find the tracks where they have killed the beast and follow the tracks from there, or we get information from other natives.

Do you accept the information of other natives in these matters?—— Not altogether.

Only when it suits you, or when?—— We often find the remains of a beast in the camp—the bones or portions of the hide.

I presume you then surround the camp with your guns?—— Yes. We go to the camp in the darkness of night and wait for daylight.

Do you arrest every black you find in the camp?—— Not on all occasions. Some times we do when we have sufficient evidence against them.

You mean aboriginal evidence?—— Yes; and with what evidence we have seen ourselves.

By looking at the carcase of a beast that has been killed, do you mean to tell this Commission that you can tell whether one black or one gin or 20 blacks or 20 gins have killed the beast?—— The tracks are there to go by. We see the tracks of a large number of natives where the beast has been killed.

Does it follow that because you see a large number of tracks in the neighbourhood of a carcase that all these blacks have had a hand in it?—— They usually do. There is usually a large party of blacks assembled at the time one of these beasts has been killed.

How do you know this—by aboriginal evidence or not?—— We have the tracks to go by and we have the evidence of the gins who accompany the blacks.

Is this evidence of the gins obtained before or after you arrest the men?—— Before we arrest them. On some occasions we secure the men first and get the information from the gins afterwards.

You may really be arresting men who are not guilty?—— There is no other way of arresting them. These natives will not stand until we get the information from the gins unless we detain them. Civilised natives would certainly.

Are some of these women whom you detain the relatives and wives of these natives?—— Yes. Do you warn them about giving evidence against their husbands?—— No.

Do you ask each prisoner whether he has killed a beast?—— Yes.

Do you inform each prisoner, individually what he is charged with?—— No. Not at the time of the arrest. Can you speak their language or do you manage it through an interpreter?—— Through an interpreter.

Who is generally the interpreter?—— One of the trackers. Is the tracker in the pay of your department?—— Yes.

Does each constable up here have his own tracker? I mean to say, does the tracker now working for you always accompany you while in the district?—— Each man on my station has not got his own tracker. I am in charge of the lot of the trackers. There is no rule to the effect that one tracker should always remain with me. There may be a different man out on each patrol and the blacks have to go with whoever is going out.

What is the farthest distance you have gone out from the station with one of these trackers and arrested alleged cattle-stealers?—— About 150 miles is the farthest point from the station to which I have gone.

Can you give me any particulars of the tracker who went with you on that occasion, as to whether he was born in the district or what language he spoke?—— He belonged to the district of Derby.

Do you mean to tell me that such a tracker, born in Derby, can thoroughly understand the language spoken by blacks 150 miles away?—— I had two trackers with me on this occasion, and one of them thoroughly understood the language spoken by blacks of the-district where I was patrolling.

Are you prepared to swear that on all occasions the trackers you have with you can thoroughly understand the language of the blacks whom you arrest?—— Yes. On the station where I am now there are two separate tribes, and the trackers can only speak one of their languages. I usually get one of the natives that belong to this district to interpret for the prisoners. Any other part I have been in I could always get natives who could speak the language of that part of the district.

On some occasions, then, your own tracker has to get another interpreter before your tracker can understand the natives?—— Yes. This is on the particular station where I am at present. I have never had to do it before.

Have you had to arrest any blacks in the particular district where you are now under these circumstances?—— Yes. I have arrested a few, only two or three.

Will you swear that each prisoner thoroughly understands what he is charged with when yon arrest him?—— Not at the time. I might do it a few hours later.

Do you arrest only those that admit their guilt?—— I arrest only those natives against whom I consider I have sufficient evidence.

What is the nature of the evidence, aboriginal?—— Yes.

Do you also arrest those in whose actual possession you find beef?—— Yes.

Do you ever arrest the gins?—— Yes.

Do you accuse them of cattle-killing?—— No.

Do you arrest them as witnesses?—— Yes.

Have you any legal authority to arrest these women as unwilling witnesses?—— No. Not that I am aware of.

How do you detain them, with neck chains?—— They are chained by the ankles.

Do you mean that their two legs are chained together?—— No. I fasten the gin to a tree with a handcuff and then fix the chain to one ankle with another handcuff—one handcuff for each prisoner.

Is it only at night that they are chained like this?—— It is necessary to detain them sometimes in the day when going through scrub or rocky country where they might get away. It is very rare that they have to be secured in the day time.

The Commission has received evidence that these witnesses are generally young gins or young children. Is that so?—— I have never brought in female children as witnesses, that is, what I have considered children.

Have you brought in young women?—— Yes.

Have you brought in old women?—— Yes.

Is it true that more young women are brought in as witnesses than very old ones?—— I think there would be an equal portion of each.

Do you allow your trackers or the assisting stockmen to have sexual intercourse with the gins whose relatives or friends you have arrested?—— They may do it without my knowing it.

Do you take any precautions at night that these assisting stockmen or trackers do not have connection with the women when chained to the trees?—— No.

Does such intercourse go on?—— I suppose it does. It could go on in the camp at night and I would know nothing about it.

So far as you know, then, this sexual intercourse may go on with these female aboriginal witnesses?—— Yes.

Are these female aboriginal witnesses ever chained on the road?—— In the day time, if it was necessary to secure them with chains the chain would be put around the neck.

Is the end of the chain ever attached to the horse’s saddle?—— No.

Is the end of the chain ever held in the hand of the arresting constable?—— If there was only the one prisoner it would be necessary to do so. I have done it. Have you ever attached the chain to the horse’s saddle?—— No.

Is it ever done to your knowledge?—— Not that I have heard of.

How many miles a day do you travel your prisoners?—— According to the regulations, we must not travel more than 15 miles a day. The natives could not average 15 miles a day in the bush. Even with a good road it would be severe on them then. Sometimes we have to travel 250 miles. You cannot always find water in the 15 miles and would have to travel 20 miles. On these occasions water is carried for them in water bags.

What was the longest patrol on which you have been and brought in the largest number of prisoners?—— I have been away about three months and brought in 33 prisoners, with about six or seven witnesses.

On such an occasion would you have enough food on your pack horses to supply them with?—— I would not start away with sufficient provisions. Where I was patrolling at that time I was in a settled district and could get provisions anywhere I needed them.

Did you get your trackers or other assistants to shoot kangaroo on the journey?—— Sometimes.

Did you get gins to collect lizards or roots on the journey?—— I have never sent them out for the purpose of collecting lizards or roots. They would pick them up on the road if they came across what they wanted.

In these cases of cattle-klling, who was the prosecutor when you brought these blacks into court?—— I was the prosecutor.

Who were the chief witnesses for the prosecution?—— Natives.

What natives?—— The natives whom I found in company with the prisoners.

Do you mean the native women?—— Yes; native women.

Native women are generally the chief witnesses in these cases, are they not?—— Yes.

Do you bring in any witnesses for the defence?—— No.

Why not?—— It is not a customary thing in the district. I have never seen it done.

This is rather a one-sided kind of justice for the black is it not?—— Yes. I have never known it to be done since I have been in the district.

You have admitted that some witnesses are relatives of the prisoners, have you not?—— Yes. They are all related in one way or another to the prisoners.

And in court they are warned about giving evidence inimical to their husbands’ interest like a white woman would be?—— No. They are never cautioned.

Are not these aboriginal female witnesses equally guilty of the alleged stealing of the carcase?—— What makes you pick these women to give evidence against the men?—— I can get no other native evidence. We have either got to take the women or some of the men.

Do the instructions demand that you should always get evidence to convict a prisoner?—— It is an understood thing that when a man arrests another he should have sufficient evidence to convict him.

And you have admitted that these women are equally guilty with the men? Yes; they are equally guilty of stealing the carcase.

These women are practically asked to turn informers?—— Yes. Who asks the accused in court whether he pleads guilty or not?—— The Magistrate.

Through an interpreter?—— Yes.

Is the interpreter the police tracker?—— Not always; but he generally is the police tracker.

Do you mean to tell me that the ordinary police tracker can thoroughly understand and explain to the accused prisoner the meaning of the word “guilty” or “intent”?—— No.

Is there anyone in court to look after the defence and interests of the prisoners?—— No.

When the charge is made against these accused, is each one charged separately as a rule?—— No. The charge is made conjointly. As a rule, any that arrested on warrant are charged separately, but those who are not arrested on warrant are charged conjointly. How many have you seen charged conjointly on any one occasion?—— I could not say for certain. About eight is as many as I can recollect.

Would the same evidence which you bring forward for cattle-killing by these blacks convict Europeans under the same circumstances?—— I do not think so.

How much do you receive per day for escorting each aboriginal prisoner or witness?—— 2s. 5d. each per day.

Do you get the same amount for returning the witnesses to their native homes after the trial is over?—— Yes. Are they always taken back again, without exception, to their native homes?—— I have sent them out on one or two occasions when they have not had far to go.

Do you receive payment for this?—— Yes. I have given them the amount in supplies to carry with them sufficient to take them to their own country.

Have any of the accused prisoners whom you have brought into court been found “not guilty”?—— I do not remember any.

How many have you secured a conviction against during the same period?—— There may be about 100, or perhaps over. I am not certain.

Is there any name given by your Department to this special allowance for aboriginal prisoners and witnesses? Yes. It is called “prisoners’ rations.”

Are these rations paid for by the Police Department or the Aborigines Department?—— By the Police Department, until the prisoners are disposed of to the Gaols Department. Do you actually spend 2s. 5d. er day on each prisoner or witness?—— No, but each native has sufficient food.

How could you make up 2s. 5d per day for rations for a young female aboriginal witness, for instance?—— They have the same rations as the men.

You say that they only receive flour, tea, and sugar, and that you kill kangaroo sometimes, and that they some times collect lizards and roots. I I want to know how you can spend 2s. 5d. per head on each one?—— (No answer.)

I will ask you another way—Do you expend the whole of this 2s. 5d. per day on each prisoner or witness?—— I think that the 2s. 5d. is spent on each native prisoner, considering that I have to find my own horses and saddles to take the provisions out.

Does the Commissioner know of this arrangement, that you have to pay for your own horses and saddles to take the provisions out?—— I think he does. I may explain that as far as I am personally concerned, the Commissioner does not, but my intentions are to let him know about it, because I could not carry on the work and find my horses, too. The horses I speak of are for carrying out private stores.

About what was the total amount you received under the “prisoners” rations” account last year?—— I could give the information if I saw the books kept at the station to which I was attached last year.

About how much do you make a year on this acconnt?—— I could not say. I keep no account of it.

Surely you must know what amounts are paid to your credit on this account?—— No I do not keep any separate account of it.

Do you mean to tell me that you are not in a position to state whether you make a profit on this 2s. 5d. which you are allowed for daily rations for these blacks?—— I make a profit. I do not lose anything by it.

Do you in any way share your profit with any other police officer?—— In an indirect way. The moneys are all paid into the mess fund at the station. If there is any surplus it is divided between the men if they are working together. Any profit is very small.

How many cases or instances can you give me where there has been no surplus?—— I could not say.

Does the tracker get any share out of the profit?—— No.

Not in the way of new clothes?—— He gets all the clothes that he needs.

Who pays for these clothes?—— The constables. How much a day do you get for the tracker?—— 2s.

With that you are supposed to clothe the tracker?—— Yes.

[other testimony follows]

AB notes:

It is not hard to see why The West Australian and The Western Mail published these exchanges in full. They are rivetting.